How much did I like this? Let me count the ways… 1, 2, 3….
Seriously, this was good. This gets into the meat and potatoes of the LDS Plan of Salvation. I think Pastor Jeff better understand it now. This was so good, from the scriptures that were covered to Pastor Jeff’s line of questioning. All of it excellent.
I would like to start by acknowledging Pastor Jeff. The stuff they covered in this drastically contradicts his belief system. He remained composed, he asked thoughtful questions, and he even properly outlined his understanding of the theology correctly. There was nothing that I felt in the way he asked a question or articulated an answer that did not feel completely sincere.
HISTORY
They address some of the history of the Book of Moses. It was given in revelation while Joseph Smith was translating the Bible. It would basically be the JST version of the first few chapters of Genesis.
CHARACTER AND ATTRIBUTES OF GOD
[00:05:30] They talk about some of the character and attributes of God, including how he is defined. His creations. His Son Jesus Christ, was prepared from the beginning. Jesus Christ has a similitude to both Moses and God.
3 And God spake unto Moses, saying: Behold, I am the Lord God Almighty, and Endless is my name; for I am without beginning of days or end of years; and is not this endless?
4 And, behold, thou art my son; wherefore look, and I will show thee the workmanship of mine hands; but not all, for my works are without end, and also my words, for they never cease.
5 Wherefore, no man can behold all my works, except he behold all my glory; and no man can behold all my glory, and afterwards remain in the flesh on the earth.
6 And I have a work for thee, Moses, my son; and thou art in the similitude of mine Only Begotten; and mine Only Begotten is and shall be the Savior, for he is full of grace and truth; but there is no God beside me, and all things are present with me, for I know them all.
HARMONIZING THE EVANGELICAL GOD WITH WHAT WAS READ
[00:08:00] I’m not going to write all of this down, but Dr. Kerry Muhlestein does a great job explaining the attributes and character of God. There was one point where I’m not sure it was explained very well, about the King Follet discourse and more than one God. Whether there is more than one God or not, there is only one God over us and this creation. Anything we are or will become will further glorify our God and add to his progression.
MOSES IS CONFRONTED BY SATAN
[00:10:20] This is one of my favorite parts of the scriptures. It details the relationship between God and Satan. This really should not be hard for people to understand. Look at the world we live in. There are those who seek authority, power, riches, and glory at any cost. This happens even between children and parents and has throughout the human race.
There is a wonderful dialogue between the two of them regarding the differences between Satan and God.
Then comes the reminder about God’s purpose. I love how these two verses are intertwined in the discussion.
For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
THE CREATION – MOSES 2
[00:14:20] This is great, because Pastor John sees how the plurality of Jesus Christ following the leadership and commandment of God the Father, creates man in their (Plural) image. Not one being. This is where Dr Muhlestein mentions, to wait until you read the book of Abraham. Seriously, a third version of the creation.
26 And I, God, said unto mine Only Begotten, which was with me from the beginning: Let us (plural) make man in our image, after our (plural) likeness; and it was so. And I, God, said: Let them have dominion over the fishes of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 And I, God, created man in mine own image, in the image of mine Only Begotten created I him; male and female created I them.
CREATED SPIRITUALLY – MOSES 3
[00:19;20] In this, they talk about how all things were created spiritually before they were created physically.
And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew. For I, the Lord God, created all things, of which I have spoken, spiritually, before they were naturally upon the face of the earth. For I, the Lord God, had not caused it to rain upon the face of the earth. And I, the Lord God, had created all the children of men; and not yet a man to till the ground; for in heaven created I them; and there was not yet flesh upon the earth, neither in the water, neither in the air;
Then they reference:
7 There is no such thing as immaterial matter. All spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure, and can only be discerned by purer eyes;
8 We cannot see it; but when our bodies are purified we shall see that it is all matter.
As I listened to this I couldn’t help but wonder. Pastor Jeff has to have heard some of the near-death experiences that people have written about. In those near-death experiences, I have heard things like rocks and flowers seeming to have life and giving out vibrations of color and sound as though they had spirits and were living elements. All they did was praise their creator. I don’t believe all of those were LDS, but rather other Christian faiths.
THE GARDEN OF EDEN
[00:22:00] Was the Garden of Eden in Missouri? Yes. Then they talk about rivers and land masses. It is important to remember that there was a flood and the whole earth was covered with water. It has always been my belief that in the time of Enoch, the land was divided by God. We have yet to be told that story. But when the flood took place, the “Americas” were reserved as a promised land and mankind was moved over to what is modern-day Turkey, Israel, Iran, and Egypt.
And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother’s name was Joktan.
For behold, they rejected all the words of Ether; for he truly told them of all things, from the beginning of man; and that after the waters had receded from off the face of this land it became a choice land above all other lands, a chosen land of the Lord; wherefore the Lord would have that all men should serve him who dwell upon the face thereof;
THE FALL OF SATAN
[00:22:50] They discuss the idea that Satan wanted to override the agency of man. Man needs to choose God.
1 And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor.
2 But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto me—Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever.
3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;
4 And he became Satan, yea, even the devil, the father of all lies, to deceive and to blind men, and to lead them captive at his will, even as many as would not hearken unto my voice.
As you can see from the scriptures I shared that were part of the discussion, the conversation was deep. Thank you, Pastor Jeff, for being willing to have this discussion. It was great.
I can’t wait for part 2