Pastor Jeff from Hello Saints Attends Education Week

Pastor Jeff from Hello Saints attended Education Week at BYU. Let’s talk about what he learned and share a few thoughts about it.

First, it looks as though Pastor Jeff broke his experience down into 4 sections; historical, doctrine, grace, and gospel study. Seems simple enough. He doesn’t explain how many sessions he attends, he seems to focus on four classes that more or less cover those four topics. It’s been 25 years since I’ve personally been to Education Week. So my current knowledge is limited.

HISTORICAL

In this setting, Pastor Jeff learned about the line of succession. He briefly explains a number of negative events in the history of the church leading up to the martyrdom of Joseph Smith. This led to the question of who should succeed Joseph Smith.

From my knowledge, there is no printed revelation that tells us how the line of succession works. It is more by tradition. Now, it could be written in the history of the church, or Journals of Discourses, or something else. I am unsure. But from my knowledge even when Brigham Young took over it was not completely clear who should lead the church. It wasn’t until Brigham Young received the mantle that he became the prophet.

CURRENT LINE OF SUCCESSION

When the president of the Church passes away, the following events take place:

1. The First Presidency is automatically dissolved.

2. The two counselors in the First Presidency revert to their places of seniority in the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. Seniority is determined by the date on which a person was ordained to the Twelve, not by age.

3. The Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, now numbering 14 and headed by the senior apostle, assumes Church leadership.

4. The senior apostle presides at a meeting of the Quorum of the Twelve to consider two alternative propositions:

    i. Should the First Presidency be reorganized at this time?

    ii. Should the Church continue to function with the Quorum of the Twelve presiding?

5. After discussion, a formal motion is made and accepted by the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles.

6. If a motion to reorganize the First Presidency is passed, the Quorum of the Twelve unanimously selects the new president of the Church. The new president chooses two counselors and the three of them become the new First Presidency. Throughout the history of the Church, the longest-serving apostle has always become the president of the Church when the First Presidency has been reorganized.

7. Following the reorganization of the First Presidency, the apostle who has served the second longest is sustained as the president of the Quorum of the Twelve. When the second-longest-serving apostle has also been called into the First Presidency as a counselor, the third-longest-serving apostle becomes acting president of the Twelve.

8. The president of the Quorum of the Twelve, along with the rest of the apostles, sets apart* the new president of the Church through a formal laying on of hands.

LINE OF SUCCESSION: Succession in the Presidency of the Church of Jesus Christ

Pastor Jeff ended up learning that all succession aside, the focus should be on Jesus Christ, not upon the prophet Joseph Smith. This is VERY TRUE.

HOW WAS THE MANTLE PASSED TO BRIGHAM YOUNG?

Joseph Smith had organized the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles to lead the church but he had not left instructions on a line of succession to replace him as prophet. After the martyrdom, there were questions as to who would be the next prophet. This led to division and splinter groups separating themselves from the church. There was a prayer meeting in which Brigham Young Spoke, while speaking there were many who saw and heard the prophet Joseph Smith instead of Brigham Young. To many, it was a sign that Brigham Young was the one God had chosen to be the next prophet. But it would still take 3 more years before he was ordained the prophet.

I heard Joseph preach many times…… I knew him to be a prophet of Cod. I heard him proph esy many times and had seen his prophecies fulfilled, had also shook hands with him and he had blessed me and I have felt the influence and power of the Lord upon him and upon me…… W|hen the Saints held a conference [following the Martyrdom| and Brigham Young arose as leader of the Church, I want to bear record that he spoke as Joseph used to speak, and to all ap pearances, the same voice, the same gesture, the same stature, and I bear this record to all the world and to my children, and to my children’s children, and also bear record that this work is God’s work, and that it will roll on as it has done from that day to this.64

on the morning of 8 August, a prayer meeting was held. Following a long speech delivered by Rigdon, Brigham Young stood to address those present. George Q. Cannon said that, as Brigham spoke, “it seemed in the eyes of the people as though it was the very person of Joseph which stood before them.”61

… the convincing power of God, to their hearts, and they were filled with the Spirit and with great joy …. The people said one to an other, “the spirit of Joseph rests upon Brigham;” they knew that he was the man chosen to lead them, and they honored him accordingly.62

Brigham Young Succeeds Joseph/”Mantle of the Prophet” (dev-bookofmormoncentral.org)

I think it was important after the death of Joseph Smith for the Lord to pass the mantle to another in a visible manner. I love that Brigham Young appeared to have the likeness of Joseph Smith. That is pretty remarkable. Now, it seems as though the succession goes to the most senior apostle. But, they must be unanimous, it is completely possible any one of the remaining apostles could be chosen. Anyhow, it is interesting how it works. I like it much better than how a Pope is called in the Catholic church.

Each time a new prophet is called, I take my own time to personally gain a witness. It is important to me to know in my own heart that God has called him to be the prophet.

DOCTRINE

Next Pastor Jeff went to a doctrinal class on Salvation and he said this is the class he struggled with the most.

This was interesting. He did well explaining the differences between Evangelical and Latter-Day Saints views on “the Gospel.” They do have different meanings. The Evangelical belief centers on accepting Jesus Christ and being saved by him. Whereas the Latter-Day Saint belief centers on exaltation and the degrees of glory.

Pastor Jeff said that there was a point where the instructor told those in attendance that those who had an opportunity to receive the Latter-Day Saint version of “the Gospel” would be sent to the Terrestrial Kingdom. I got the feeling that Pastor Jeff was a bit hurt by that. One, he doesn’t believe in the Latter-Day Saint plan of salvation which says that all of God’s Children will receive some form of salvation. Two, most Evangelicals pretty much believe the Latter-Day Saints are going straight to hell and will receive no Salvation. No one said he is going to hell for not believing LDS doctrine.

How can I put this, I got the feeling it surprised him that anyone could think that he, being a faithful Evangelical Pastor, would go anywhere other than heaven. But honestly, what do Evangelicals believe? They believe they will go to heaven, be in the presence of Jesus Christ forever worshiping him. What is the Terrestrial Kingdom? It is being in the presence of the Son, Jesus Christ, and worshiping him forever. He does not believe the Father is a different being from the Son and is not seeking to be in the Father’s presence, which is the Celestial Kingdom. In other words, we both believe the same thing. He will get the glory he is seeking. If he wants more, he should seek more.

77 These are they who receive of the presence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father.

Doctrine and Covenants 76 (churchofjesuschrist.org)

This idea that one could be elevated above another receiving greater glory seems to offend people. It offends apostates, it offends other Christian denominations, it offends those who do not live by the standards of the church. Yet, other more harsh beliefs such as believing members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints are all going to hell seem to be acceptable and tolerable. There are so many who think ill of the church and its beliefs. They will condemn members of the church with an even more severe condemnation for espousing beliefs that don’t conform to mainstream Christianity. I don’t get it.

I think there are enough hints in the scriptures outside of the LDS canon backing up these beliefs. They are not worth arguing over. There is nothing wrong with the church having a belief and teaching it. God’s laws are not the same as man’s laws. However, all men have the choice to choose to follow or not.

GRACE

Pastor Jeff was very praiseworthy of Kirk Frankom’s lecture on Grace.

As expected, Pastor Jeff talks about “works” based beliefs as though they are wrong. I felt there was a hint of that in this conversation. I almost felt like it was similar to these people who think you are the devil because you want to vote for Trump. All of a sudden you must go on the defensive, justify your support, apologize, or make a public decree denouncing him. What is wrong with liking Trump? He is a choice, a past president, and a current candidate. If you want to, like him and vote for him. You do not owe anyone an explanation for doing so. You should not be humiliated canceled, or lose your livelihood for doing so. If you feel inclined to do good works, do them! If you feel inclined to serve the Lord, serve him! Having a belief that you should do good work should not disqualify you from salvation. Go and work out your salvation before the Lord.

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

James 2 (churchofjesuschrist.org)

Will God strike you down for believing in works? No. For doing good works? No. Then for heaven’s sake, if you feel so inclined to serve your fellow men, go and serve them. And may God bless you for doing so. And may your works be counted as righteousness for you.

Paraphrasing part of the topic, Pastor Jeff said: “In a way counteract a legalism or works-based mindset that has crept into the Latter-Day Saint culture. ” What? “Works-based mindset that has crept into [the church] culture.” Are you kidding me? Nothing has crept into anything. The idea that 200 years after the gospel was restored we are or must agree that works are bad is nuts.

How do you declare it a non-works based religion?

  • Callings
  • Temple Work
  • Tithing
  • Church attendance
  • Service
  • Missionary work

I think this belief fits squarely in a terrestrial mindset. If you feel that all you need to do is believe in Jesus and you are required to do no more, there you go.

Clearly, God will save us if he chooses to. We are not required to labor. But, how can you know the master that you have not served? Our labors are not rungs on a ladder towards salvation, but rather, a demonstration of our faith. We are wholly reliant upon the mercy and atoning blood of Jesus Christ. That cannot be earned through works. Yet, through works we come to know him. As he said:

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

Matthew 25 (churchofjesuschrist.org)

Consider the parable of the laborers. They are workers performing work. Some work more than others; others work less. Yet, all receive the same gift, Salvation. In the end, I would rather be welcomed as a good and faithful servant for serving my master than banished to outer darkness as a slothful servant. Anything less than the celestial glory might as well be outer darkness.

LDS SCRIPTURE STUDY

This was actually good, but poorly edited. He jumped between a few stories. The overall thought was that someone Paster Jeff did not personally know was able to preach a sermon rooted in the gospels (New Testament) that really impacted pastor Jeff.

OVERALL

We are a church of order. Our history is interesting. Our doctrine gives hope. We press forward with steadfast faith in Christ and a brightest of hope that we may receive all he has promised. We also love the Lord, therefore we serve the Lord.

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